An apology to O&G players

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Kinne
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An apology to O&G players

Postby Kinne » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:21 am

I took a look at the new book today. Unfortunately, I have to say I was extremely underwhelmed. Overall, the book wasn't changed overmuch. Animosity works differently now, and Orc magic looks like it could do a lot of damage. I'll start with the good:

Animosity
We're back to the days of rolling twice for animosity. For each unit of five greenies, you roll at the beginning of the turn. On a 2+, everything's cool. On a 1, roll on the Animosity Chart. Here's where it gets. . .interesting. A 1 means that your unit will attack the nearest friendly unit that must also test for Animosity within 12", inflicting D6 S3 hits on them. The other unit will respond in kind. Horde units cause 2D6 S3 hits. The bummer here -- even though only one unit failed, both units can do nothing this turn. On a 2 - 5 (IIRC), the unit must immediately declare a charge against the nearest enemy unit, if it can. If not, I believe it marches straight toward them. On a 6, however, the unit Marches straight at the nearest enemy unit before declaring charges, making your unit's charge range 8 + 4 + 2d6 for infantry. So you almost want them to fail their Animosity tests (and pray for no ones).

Trolls
Here's an interesting move -- trolls, river trolls and stone trolls are all separate unit choices now. River and stone trolls have the same exact benefits (-1 To Hit in melee against river, 5+ Armor and MR for stone). However, boring ol' plain trolls are a Special Choice and also five points cheaper (35 instead of 40). Stone and river trolls are two separate Rare choices, and fifteen points cheaper (45 instead of 60). And the rules specifically state that your can make supporting Vomit attacks.

Da Big Spidah!
Okay, so this guy is pretty cool. M7, WS4, S5, T6, W8, A8, with eight little gobbos on his back. He is Stubborn, but at a poor Ld 6, so keep your general close. Poison (as expected), Forest Strider, Obstacle Strider and Wall Climber. Wall Climber lets all spiders (including the big 'un) count unoccupied buildings as open ground. You cannot end on or in them, but you can move right through them. And it also has Swiftstride. Two things that jumped out for me -- it can replace one of its normal attacks with one that benefits from Multiple Wounds (D6), and it can have a catapult on its back. The catapult looks like it sucks -- it's only S1 (3), BUT any unit struck by it suffers from Always Strikes Last for one turn (and maybe some other nasty side-effect). It can also take an Engine of the Gods. . .err, I mean some sort of greenskin equivalent to Engine of the Gods that gives a gobbo shaman Loremaster: Little Waaagh and also +2 to Channel. All around not bad, but it's a base of 290 points.

Characters
Wurrzagh is definitely in. He's a decent spellcaster who can store dice in his Squiggly Beast (a mutated shaman), and he can also turn enemy wizards into Squiggly Beasts (and store more dice in them). There were a few new characters I skipped over, and then all of the characters from the last book (Gorbad, Azhag, Grom, Skarsnik and Grimgor). Some got more expensive and slightly better, some slightly cheaper and exactly the same.

Mangla Squigs
This is a Rare choice, and I can't remember how many you can take as one "unit". These bad boys are like squig hoppers, but nastier. When they contact an enemy unit, they pop through them like a fanatic, inflicting 2d6 S6 hits! I think their rider falls off after the first time they hit an enemy unit.

Nasty Skulkers
Kind of neat but completely unoriginal -- these are goblin-equivalents of Skaven and Dark Elf assassins. They lurk in units just like fanatics, and pop out with a handful of ASF attacks that have Killing Blow the first turn. Kind of neat for a cheap, lucky shot on a character.

That's about it. Every unit from the old book is back, and with the exception of Trolls, I believe they are in the same unit choice section. And here's the bad:

-- Giants are about the same number of points and operate in the same exact manner.
-- Black Orcs are still WS4 with one attack.
-- Orc Boyz and Arrer Boyz are one point more expensive and exactly the same.
-- Night Gobbos are the same cost.
-- Skulkers are a weak imitation of much-better assassins.
-- The book is almost exactly the same with a few modified points costs and only a handful of new units.
-- The book is almost $40
-- All of your wonderful Greenskin magic items are all-but gone. Perhaps the most extensive Magic Item list is chopped back to eight. Yes. . .eight items total, and only two are weapons. Battle Axe of the Last Waaagh! is back, but now you add D6 to your S and Attacks, but deduct half of the dice roll from your WS. Then there's a Dwarf-specific weapon, a suit of armor, three banners, and then two either Enchanted Items, Talismans or Arcane Items (can't remember which).

Oh, one neat rules change -- Savage Orc Boar Boyz can use two hand weapons, but suffer -1 to Dangerous Terrain.

Honestly, I think Orcs and Goblins are going to remain exactly where they are as far as competitive level. The Arachnarok Spider is cool, but with T6 and a 4+ armor, it'll likely get shot to Hell nine out of ten times. Oh, and giants can take Warpaint for a 6+ Ward for some ridiculous cost like 20 points, making them more expensive and just as useless. Basically, your opponent will have to inflict seven successful wounds instead of six. . .not that hard to to since you can't rely on terrain to hide you, Mr. Tall-as-a-house Giant. I'm very disappointed with this. They really didn't bring their A-game to this new book.
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Commander_Jay
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Commander_Jay » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:35 am

Wizzbang the power squig!
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oninosweeney
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby oninosweeney » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:46 am

things do not look well for the new army books.
hopefully they get their crap together by the time TK comes out so that the OK book will be decent.
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Dez
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Dez » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:35 am

I didn't see you mention the Choppa rule. All weapons in a greenskin army are +1 to STR in the first round of combat, whether charging or charged.

I'd really like to see more on the Special Characters, we know this is the direction GW is headed in to add more character to armies.

I'd like to look at the book before I make any decisions, but I can already feel which way I'm leaning. I'll probably get the Codex (I love hardcover books) and magic cards. I need to focus on my Warriors of Chaos, and I think I'm just going to make a Chaos Dwarf army to go with them.
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Randy
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Randy » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:15 pm

It sounds to me that the only reason to be let down is your expectations were not met. Most or the negitive things you said were to the effect of: they didnt get any better. Thats not really a negitive point its nuetral.

In my opinion it boils down to, it cost 40 bucks, has only minor changes, most of them positive.
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Inquisitor Wall » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:28 pm

As far as a reasonable codex update, it sounds pretty normal. Im not really sure how I feel about a reduction of magic items, but O&G have always had one of the largest lists.
I'd say O&G will stay as competitive as they have always been, which is not all that high, but then again O&G players typically are playing them to have fun. Id be more upset if they made the army super competitive and less fun.
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Kinne
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Kinne » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:58 pm

The main reason I was disappointed with the book is that you tend to see large leaps in one book from the next. I suppose 40k ruined my codex expectations -- one 40k book to another usually includes a good amount of new books and new rules. Come to think of it, Fantasy books tend to show less change.

And Dez -- that was a rule in the current Orc & Goblin book. It was two editions ago that you had to charge.
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Dez
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Dez » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:21 pm

Yup, but I think it's ALL weapons ie Spears have the Choppa rule now. So Blorcs with Great Weapons would have an additional +1 too.
What aims do the Orks have? What is the point of a tornado?

Fighting E.G.A.D.D Excitable Gamer Attention Deficit Disorder

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB

J Rzasa
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby J Rzasa » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:24 pm

My first question: Where did you read this? In other words, where can I go to read it? GW announced that Night Goblins with spears are 3 pts. Night Goblins are currently 3 points. It's possible they made a change where you can arm them with spears for free. These are little things that an O&G player might notice that someone casually looking at the codex may not.

But to be honest, they didn't need a whole lot. I would have liked to see the Goblin LD issue fixed, bringing NG's up to 6 like regular Goblins. But beyond that, I was pretty happy with the army. I guess Magic was the other big issue.

~J

EDIT: Also, as one of the largest ranges in Warhammer, I was looking forward to more plastic units.

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Dez
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Re: An apology to O&G players

Postby Dez » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:27 pm

From what I've read you are right, J. 3 point NG. I believe Fisher has the Black Box, I'm thinking of heading up there tonite to check it out.
What aims do the Orks have? What is the point of a tornado?

Fighting E.G.A.D.D Excitable Gamer Attention Deficit Disorder

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB


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