GW got the point

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Slimnoid
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Re: GW got the point

Postby Slimnoid » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:11 pm

orkwarboss wrote:Not to jack this thread but CHS has almost folded. Owner now calls it a side job. Orders take months to full.


Yes, and in the process, GW lost a fair bit of trademark weight with the precedence set in that case. GW cannot claim copyright breach if someone makes a model for a unit that GW has not made a model for (like the mycetic spore). GW took around 200 specific articles of alleged copyright infringement to court with them, and won about 30% of those; this undoubtedly prompted the various army name changes we've seen in 40k to a much more copyright-friendly set of names.

CHS may be all but gone, but GW arguably lost out more in the long run.
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J Rzasa
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Re: GW got the point

Postby J Rzasa » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:58 pm

I've been waffling on this all week. I'm not sure this is even worth it with the points added. Stay with me for a minute, this isn't AoS hate.

Let's imagine for a moment that they put out really competitive rules. Assuming this makes a competitive tournament game 5-10 units (including characters) and 40ish models. This puts it in line with Warmachine, and 40k to a lesser extent.

I'd ball park this army at $300-600. I know this is arbitrary without seeing points costs, but I'd imagine just looking at the new Orruks that were released, you probably need a box of Ard Boyz ($53), 2 boxes of Brutes ($100 total), a box or 2 of the Boar Riders ($80-160), that big dragon thing ($110). That gives us 31-34 models and the dragon, maybe a shaman gets added at $30 for a total of $450.

For that $450, what else can I do with it? Well, Bolt Action I could buy almost 2x 2000 pt armies (about $250 each). I could probably build a pretty big Kings of War Army. I could probably buy an entire Malifaux faction. Or this would probably be a decent Warmachine/Hordes force.

I think points are a great step, and it will get some people back into it. The models are gorgeous for the most part, but the expense is ridiculous. The system is basically Kings of War with different movement rules (No, seriously, it is). I'm having a really hard time with the sticker shock, especially when some of the best games on the market right now are so much cheaper, and the model quality isn't that far behind.

That being said, I am looking forward to the book. We did order the organized kit for the summer. If it is a ton of fun, it may be worth the price of admission.

~J

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Dez
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Re: GW got the point

Postby Dez » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:12 pm

J I can tell you I'd buy those new Orks right now...but buying one of each model and the book is $382. I remember getting the Ork release in 2007 where I got one of each kit and it was about $180. Sticker shock? Sticker coma. Let me know when they release a Start Collecting box, because I like the models but I just can't pay that. I'm serious, I even like the Neckboars...at a laughable 3 for $90

In comparison, I just got the US Starter Box for Bolt Action. It's a conservative 1000 point army, which is the suggested points value. It comes with a Sherman, Halftrack, Machine Gun Team, Mortar Team and 10 sprues of soldiers and 6 of weapons (16 sprues in all) to make 50 Infantry. It retails for $114. The models are just as detailed and full of character as GW...I was shocked when I opened the box. No flash and minimal mold lines. The arms are made so you can fit the weapons in them, fingers on the trigger. I am going to take some pics and a review later, it's a beautiful box set.

I'm willing to try AoS some more, I'm even going to make a spider themed Goblin army.
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Kinne
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Re: GW got the point

Postby Kinne » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:00 pm

J Rzasa wrote:For that $450, what else can I do with it?


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Re: GW got the point

Postby J Rzasa » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:29 pm

Can you even get into Armada for $450?

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Kinne
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Re: GW got the point

Postby Kinne » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:21 am

Core Set - 100
2 x Imperial SDs - 100
Victory SD - 40
2 x Gladiator SDs - 60
2 x Raiders - 40
3 x Imperial Fighter packs - 60
2 x Rogues and Villains packs - 40
Dice Pack - 10

$450 on the nose. With that, you get between 480 points (less expensive variants with no upgrades) and 1,000 points in ships alone. Add in another 400 - 500 points in squadrons. So for the cost of a lone AoS army, you're getting multiples of every ship in a faction, with three times the points of a standard game.

Honestly, the only expensive part of Armada is the starter set. Once you get past that, the most expensive ship is the ISD ($50). But for $50, you get a third of your fleet, and that's before you start slapping on upgrades (and do those ISDs loooove their upgrades). You could take the core set and get yourself a nice tournament army for about another $100. At $280, you have one of every Imperial pack (including a core set VSD and an expansion), and you can get the same on the Rebel side for $290 (again, including core and expansion Neb-Bs and CR90s). At that point, you're buying multiples for more options.

And while some have complained about Armada's "lack of releases", I find it nicely spaced out. For Wave One, you could get everything at $190/$200, and you had six months to save up the $90 to buy everything from Wave Two. The only things announced for Wave Three are Flotillas, which will probably be $20. But the game already has a ton of variety and countless fleet builds that have been successful at Store and Regional Championships. And the two factions are very nicely balanced (although the Demolisher Imperial build is dominating right now, because if you haven't seen it before, it will kill you).
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